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	<title>Comments on: Latest with Atos</title>
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	<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/</link>
	<description>Campaigns for Carers</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-3313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-3313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More importanly was HM Government decided on the 3 year £100m pa contract to ATOS?

An interesting FOI request made by Lucy Series looks at London Councils and it approach to it FACS criteria and lists http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/information_on_personal_budgets#incoming-212935

Lucy main webpage is http://thesmallplaces.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-transparent-are-personal-budgets.html#comment-form , of similiar interest and information is how HM Government will address the CPI increase of 5.2% when it was hoping that this would be less than the current rate of CPI http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/many-benefits-should-be-increasing-next-april-2012-septembers-cpi-52-will-goverment-stand-its#comment-17981]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More importanly was HM Government decided on the 3 year £100m pa contract to ATOS?</p>
<p>An interesting FOI request made by Lucy Series looks at London Councils and it approach to it FACS criteria and lists <a href="http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/information_on_personal_budgets#incoming-212935" rel="nofollow">http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/information_on_personal_budgets#incoming-212935</a></p>
<p>Lucy main webpage is <a href="http://thesmallplaces.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-transparent-are-personal-budgets.html#comment-form" rel="nofollow">http://thesmallplaces.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-transparent-are-personal-budgets.html#comment-form</a> , of similiar interest and information is how HM Government will address the CPI increase of 5.2% when it was hoping that this would be less than the current rate of CPI <a href="http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/many-benefits-should-be-increasing-next-april-2012-septembers-cpi-52-will-goverment-stand-its#comment-17981" rel="nofollow">http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/many-benefits-should-be-increasing-next-april-2012-septembers-cpi-52-will-goverment-stand-its#comment-17981</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-3253</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-3253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Atos Won&#039; they  had no right to close your site.

The fact that you stated you would remove the post says it all really.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atos Won&#8217; they  had no right to close your site.</p>
<p>The fact that you stated you would remove the post says it all really.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 07:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Those interested in reviewing FOI requests and responses submitted to either the DWP/Atos can be found at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/atos/newest

simliar interest http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/atos-origin-complaints-procedure-revealed-wwwbenefitsandworkcouk and http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/benefits-assessment-firm-causing-fear-and-loathing-among-claimants-says-mp-work-pensions-com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those interested in reviewing FOI requests and responses submitted to either the DWP/Atos can be found at <a href="http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/atos/newest" rel="nofollow">http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/atos/newest</a></p>
<p>simliar interest <a href="http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/atos-origin-complaints-procedure-revealed-wwwbenefitsandworkcouk" rel="nofollow">http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/atos-origin-complaints-procedure-revealed-wwwbenefitsandworkcouk</a> and <a href="http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/benefits-assessment-firm-causing-fear-and-loathing-among-claimants-says-mp-work-pensions-com" rel="nofollow">http://benefits.tcell.org.uk/forums/benefits-assessment-firm-causing-fear-and-loathing-among-claimants-says-mp-work-pensions-com</a></p>
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		<title>By: malka</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1570</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[malka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 05:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yes, they are getting off light, but maybe it will make them think twice before they try to pull a stunt like that again.......many more people are now aware of how they operate, they are being watched carefully now..........(i hope)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, they are getting off light, but maybe it will make them think twice before they try to pull a stunt like that again&#8230;&#8230;.many more people are now aware of how they operate, they are being watched carefully now&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.(i hope)</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1557</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In none of their allegations of libel - not ignoring the conspicuous absence of court orders - have Atos met their obligations in law. To whit:-

A claimant in an action for malicious falsehood must show that:

The statement is false.

The statement was published maliciously about the individual or his business: negligence is not sufficient (Shapiro v La Morta [1923] 40 TLR 201).

Special damage has directly and naturally resulted from the publication.

Source: http://plc.practicallaw.com/8-502-6388  (Corporate libel)

Atos, no matter what they might think, are not above the law - but they are being allowed to be so by craven hosting services, who should be demanding court orders before taking any action, and even then should give the blog, forum or website owner the opportunity to abate the alleged libel, not trash their entire operation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In none of their allegations of libel &#8211; not ignoring the conspicuous absence of court orders &#8211; have Atos met their obligations in law. To whit:-</p>
<p>A claimant in an action for malicious falsehood must show that:</p>
<p>The statement is false.</p>
<p>The statement was published maliciously about the individual or his business: negligence is not sufficient (Shapiro v La Morta [1923] 40 TLR 201).</p>
<p>Special damage has directly and naturally resulted from the publication.</p>
<p>Source: <a href="http://plc.practicallaw.com/8-502-6388" rel="nofollow">http://plc.practicallaw.com/8-502-6388</a>  (Corporate libel)</p>
<p>Atos, no matter what they might think, are not above the law &#8211; but they are being allowed to be so by craven hosting services, who should be demanding court orders before taking any action, and even then should give the blog, forum or website owner the opportunity to abate the alleged libel, not trash their entire operation.</p>
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		<title>By: CarerWatch Forum and the risk of potentially libellous hyperlinks &#124; The Creative Crip</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CarerWatch Forum and the risk of potentially libellous hyperlinks &#124; The Creative Crip]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Atos&#8217;s resonse raises even more questions than it actually answers and a read of the full CarerWatch post on the matter is highly recommended. Of particular interest to us all, campaigners or not, are the legal implications of links to potentially libellous material. Though one would hope that common sense would prevail it cases like these, research on the subject reveals that unfortunately such a reality is elusive and no thanks to legal eagles and the politicians meant to safeguard our basic human right.of free speech. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Atos&#8217;s resonse raises even more questions than it actually answers and a read of the full CarerWatch post on the matter is highly recommended. Of particular interest to us all, campaigners or not, are the legal implications of links to potentially libellous material. Though one would hope that common sense would prevail it cases like these, research on the subject reveals that unfortunately such a reality is elusive and no thanks to legal eagles and the politicians meant to safeguard our basic human right.of free speech. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: onmybiketoo</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[onmybiketoo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 09:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why is this blog needed by us carers ? It is blogs like this that help us carers get help and the support we need. Most of us are isolated  , looking after a loved one without adequate support by the authorities. We are left to our own devices by our local GPs, hospitals, loc government, national government. We are so under valued that we are paid below the minimum wage for duties that can span 24hrs a day , day in day out, carrying duties that other saner ppl would run a mile from. Sometimes we get to desperation point  and need to be able to &#039;talk &#039;to someone, some of us can not get out so our computer are our only link with the outside world. This is why closing this blog is so WRONG.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is this blog needed by us carers ? It is blogs like this that help us carers get help and the support we need. Most of us are isolated  , looking after a loved one without adequate support by the authorities. We are left to our own devices by our local GPs, hospitals, loc government, national government. We are so under valued that we are paid below the minimum wage for duties that can span 24hrs a day , day in day out, carrying duties that other saner ppl would run a mile from. Sometimes we get to desperation point  and need to be able to &#8216;talk &#8216;to someone, some of us can not get out so our computer are our only link with the outside world. This is why closing this blog is so WRONG.</p>
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		<title>By: Porthos Aramis</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Porthos Aramis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In terms of PR - which is surely the only concern of Atos - it would appear that they have managed to shoot themselves in the foot; then cunningly strangle themselves; then cleverly arrange for their own drowning.

Their already somewhat dubious name and reputation have been besmirched further by their own jittery and clumsy hand.

CarerWatch, of course, now has all the work of clearing up the damage done by a corporation, after it has flailed its arms around and decided, like a toddler in a tantrum, that breaking things is better than fixing itself and mending its own public reputation.

It will be interesting to see how things stand in, say, five years&#039; time.

After all, courting the Murdoch Empire was regarded as essential by all politicians at one time.

Now, association with the Great Pariah is the kiss of death to a political career.

This looks like the beginning of a long and destructive period of panic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of PR &#8211; which is surely the only concern of Atos &#8211; it would appear that they have managed to shoot themselves in the foot; then cunningly strangle themselves; then cleverly arrange for their own drowning.</p>
<p>Their already somewhat dubious name and reputation have been besmirched further by their own jittery and clumsy hand.</p>
<p>CarerWatch, of course, now has all the work of clearing up the damage done by a corporation, after it has flailed its arms around and decided, like a toddler in a tantrum, that breaking things is better than fixing itself and mending its own public reputation.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see how things stand in, say, five years&#8217; time.</p>
<p>After all, courting the Murdoch Empire was regarded as essential by all politicians at one time.</p>
<p>Now, association with the Great Pariah is the kiss of death to a political career.</p>
<p>This looks like the beginning of a long and destructive period of panic.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Riches (@Pete_Riches)</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pete Riches (@Pete_Riches)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 02:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seriously, this shocking story should be taken to Private Eye. They have already picked up on the huge distress caused by ATOS in other items published this year already. I think they would find this David and Goliath story of great interest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, this shocking story should be taken to Private Eye. They have already picked up on the huge distress caused by ATOS in other items published this year already. I think they would find this David and Goliath story of great interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Anony</title>
		<link>http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/latest-with-atos-2/#comment-1524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anony]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2011 23:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carerwatch.wordpress.com/?p=2656#comment-1524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Now , if I was hit with a sledgehammer , and survived , I would be looking for retribution , not looking to shake hands.&quot;

Even if they&#039;re still holding the sledgehammer and you have both hands tied behind your back?

Seems to me offering to remove that single post is (if somewhat galling) a small price to pay to get the forum people rely on back on its feet.

You have to choose your battles in this life. I don&#039;t know the set-up of CarerWatch but in the post I see that CW has &quot;no resources&quot;. I think you grossly underestimate what is required to successfully take on a state-sponsored multi-national.

By all means spread the word about this event and campaign. But any attempt to try and go for the Atos jugular, attacking them head-on is the very definition of futile, in my opinion.

What do you want to see? Frances et al getting their forum back? Or Frances being dragged through a lengthy court battle that might cost her every asset she owns and along with it her health?

Years ago a young couple tried to take on McDonalds. Well, I say &quot;tried&quot;. They won... sort of! But they could so easily have been destroyed by that. They underwent incredible stress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_Restaurants_v_Morris_%26_Steel

I&#039;m generally a very pessimistic person. But I actually think that Atos will eventually be defeated and will be removed from the process of performing medicals. Why do I think that? Well, look what happened with superinjunctions. Think of Wikileaks. The internet doesn&#039;t shut up when things go so badly wrong. Attempts to stifle speech tend to have the opposite effect.

This is a well-observed phenomenon and even has a cute name: &quot;The Streisand effect&quot;.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Streisand_effect]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Now , if I was hit with a sledgehammer , and survived , I would be looking for retribution , not looking to shake hands.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even if they&#8217;re still holding the sledgehammer and you have both hands tied behind your back?</p>
<p>Seems to me offering to remove that single post is (if somewhat galling) a small price to pay to get the forum people rely on back on its feet.</p>
<p>You have to choose your battles in this life. I don&#8217;t know the set-up of CarerWatch but in the post I see that CW has &#8220;no resources&#8221;. I think you grossly underestimate what is required to successfully take on a state-sponsored multi-national.</p>
<p>By all means spread the word about this event and campaign. But any attempt to try and go for the Atos jugular, attacking them head-on is the very definition of futile, in my opinion.</p>
<p>What do you want to see? Frances et al getting their forum back? Or Frances being dragged through a lengthy court battle that might cost her every asset she owns and along with it her health?</p>
<p>Years ago a young couple tried to take on McDonalds. Well, I say &#8220;tried&#8221;. They won&#8230; sort of! But they could so easily have been destroyed by that. They underwent incredible stress.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_Restaurants_v_Morris_%26_Steel" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_Restaurants_v_Morris_%26_Steel</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m generally a very pessimistic person. But I actually think that Atos will eventually be defeated and will be removed from the process of performing medicals. Why do I think that? Well, look what happened with superinjunctions. Think of Wikileaks. The internet doesn&#8217;t shut up when things go so badly wrong. Attempts to stifle speech tend to have the opposite effect.</p>
<p>This is a well-observed phenomenon and even has a cute name: &#8220;The Streisand effect&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Streisand_effect" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Streisand_effect</a></p>
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